The Progressive Democrats' Sales Tax
I consider myself to be fairly liberal on most issues. So some of you might be surprised that I am about to take a position that’s usually the providence of hardcore conservatives. I support HR25—the Fair Tax Act of 2005.
Yeah. The one that would replace virtually the entire tax system with a 23% sales tax.
I read about it most recently in
an unnecessarily hostile editorial
by Matthew Holmes. Truth be told, his article did nothing to convince me that the tax is a good thing. But it convinced me to wade through the
full text of the legislation
, and I’ve decided that not only is the Fair Tax Act justifiable, it is the
ideal
legislation for progressive democrats. I’ll explain why.
Defining “Progressive”
I used the word “progressive” up there in my introduction. Exactly what that term means can be a little shaky sometimes, but when we’re talking about tax code, it has a pretty clear meaning: people with more money shoulder more of the tax burden. Using this definition, sales taxes are usually something progressives would avoid, since they often hit the poor the hardest. Most sales taxes make life considerably harder for the impoverished, because they increase the cost of basic necessities, making it harder for people to get by.
A National Luxury Tax
This proposal isn’t like that. The secret lies in Title II, Sections 301-303, a provision called the “family consumption allowance.” These provisions allow families to purchase necessities without paying taxes on them. (“Family” means “1 or more family members sharing a common residence”).
This exemption does something interesting: it means that the government would only get taxes from the sales of nonessentials—things that the impoverished, by definition, don’t buy. By allowing essential products to be purchased without the tax, it turns the “national sales tax” into something more like a “national luxury tax”.
In other words, people who spend most of their money on things like food, clothing, and medicine end up paying almost
none
of the tax burden, while people who spend a greater percentage of their income on luxuries pay a greater percentage of the tax burden. People who don’t have very much money almost uniformly fall into the former group, while people with lots of money almost uniformly fall into the latter group. People with more money shoulder more of the tax burden—it’s as progressive as is gets.
Helping the Needy
The family consumption allowance is a rebate, mailed monthly by the Social Security Administration to families of 1 or more(?!?). According to II§301, the amount of the rebate check is equal to the product of the tax rate and the poverty level.
Using this definition, families making (and thus spending)
less
then the poverty level could conceivably receive
more
money in their rebate check than the actual sales tax rate.
This is a similar concept to the Earned Income Tax Credit currently administered by the IRS, with a few exceptions. Unlike the EITC, it the consumption allowance can be claimed by the unemployed. The consumption allowance would also require a lot less paperwork than the EITC—just names, address, proof of citizenship, etc. That’s a good thing for families who are especially time-constrained or people who are poorly educated. And statistics show that such families are
exactly
the ones who would need such a credit the most.
Tax Evasion
Of course, the Fair Tax Act would also virtually eliminate tax evasion. Right now, companies can move their assets offshore and avoid paying U.S. taxes on them. Some people, particularly business executives and accountants, consider it to be good business.
I, along with most Democrats, consider this to be tax evasion. The Fair Tax Act would put an end to it. The Act would mandate that anything
sold
in the United States would incur U.S. taxes. There’s really no way to outsource that. Businesses couldn’t get around it by moving production to China, or by moving their income to Bermuda. If they want to sell their product in America (and they all do), it
will
be taxed.
There are no less than a thousand articles out there that deal with the tax evasion issue, so I won’t say much more about it, but corporate tax evasion is contrary to the spirit of a progressive tax system. It’s currently legal in many forms, thanks to loopholes in our indecipherably complex tax code. That’s bad, and this would put an end to it.
Illegal Immigration
The Act would also provide a serious new tool in the attempt to end illegal immigration. It wouldn’t involve any weapons or border guards or checkpoints or fences—and it wouldn’t cost the government a single extra cent. Again, it has to do with the consumption allowance that I talked about a few paragraphs back.
See, only citizens are eligible for the credit. That effectively increases the cost of living for illegal aliens (okay, okay, “undocumented immigrants”) by 23% (assuming, of course, that they live under the ceiling for such a credit, which I’m just guessing that most do.
Since the primary motivations for the border jumpers are economic, this throws a wrench in the whole
concept
of entering the country illegally. It gets at the
reasons
that illegal immigrants are trying to come into America—which is exactly what a lot of Democrats have been saying we should do all along.
Where Does All The Money Go?
The
budget of the IRS
is currently over ten
billion
dollars per year,
plus
the equivalent of a hundred thousand federal employees. Let’s think about that for a moment: ten billion dollars and a hundred thousand people… what could we do with that?
Some of it, of course, would go to the collection agencies established in III§302, but not
nearly
the scale of the IRS. For one thing, there’s a lot of administrative overhead that gets out of the way because the new Federal Sales Tax Bureau would, for states that already implement sales tax, be working with an infrastructure that is mostly already in place.
So let’s look at what we could do with the money, and with those employees. Let’s assume that a high school can accommodate 2400 students for 3 million doallars a year. That’s an average—in some places it costs more, in some places less, but it’s a fairly realistic estimate. $10 billion would cover the entire cost of operating over three thousand high schools—that’s the total cost of educating 7,200,000 students.
And that doesn’t include the agency’s hundred thousand employees. Let’s say we divided them evenly among the states and put them to work in DMV offices. Anybody who has ever applied for a driver’s license can appreciate the notion of having 2000 extra people in the DMV office. We could do that,
in addition
to the school thing, for no more than we are already paying just to operate the IRS.
No Tax Cuts for the Rich
The income tax and payroll tax systems that HR25 would replace have not been working out too well for progressives in the past four years. Why? Because the systems we have in place are too obscure. How many people even know what it means to “tighten the tax brackets?” How many people even realize that their income is not all taxed at the same rate?
The simple fact is, George Bush’s “tax cuts for the rich” that were so offensive to the idea of a progressive tax system
were only possible
because the tax system is so unbelievably complex. Under the system that HR25 proposes, targeting tax cuts at the top 1% of income earners would be not only politically impossible, but
literally
impossible. Why? Because the system
inherently
gets a greater percentage from those with more disposable income. (See the section above, “A National Luxury Tax”).
Unlike the current system, the national sales tax would do this without any disparity in the established rates. In other words, the only way that politicians could shift the tax burden away from the rich would be to
explicitly give them a lower rate
. That, my friends, sits in the dictionary as the cardinal example of “political suicide.”
But Shouldn’t Businesses Pay Their Fair Share?
One of the more obvious questions that comes up when we talk about replacing our entire tax system with a sales tax is whether it shifts too much of the burden away from business. A few people go so far as to say it shifts the
entire
burden away from business. And quite honestly, I cannot see how that is the case.
The argument that a sales tax shifts the burden away from businesses is fallacious because it assumes that consumers have
unlimited
disposable income. I will concede that if you are rich enough to believe that, you should absolutely oppose HR25. Most people I know do
not
have an unlimited supply of money.
If consumers had unlimited spending money, then the businesses could go on as usual. They’d hang on to their existing margins, pass the entire cost of the tax on to consumers, and the price of
everything
would go up by 23%. Again, that’s assuming that every customer has unlimited money.
In the real world, if the price of
almost anything
were to actually go up by 23%, they would price almost
all
of their existing customers out of the market. We’re talking a serious hit to their sales. So, we can expect most of them to change things to keep their numbers up—to decrease margins in exchange for increased sales. They don’t
have
to, but those who don’t will find that most of their customers can’t afford their products. No customers=No income=No business.
There is actually an exception to this. Businesses that cater almost exclusively to the indescribably wealthy could conceivably pass the entire cost of the tax to customers, but keep in mind that that is a relatively small market (and will remain that way), simply because so few consumers fall into the “indescribably wealthy” category.
Conclusion
It’s kind of hard to believe that I’m finishing up an 1900-word analysis of the tax code. I mean, who am I to evaluate the complex intricacies of tax law?
Ordinarily I’d defer to the accountants on an issue like this. After all, they’ve studied economics and spent years of their life working with and around the tax code. They
know
taxes like some people know their way home from work. I, by comparison, am a rank amateur.
But this is an issue where deferring to accountants is profoundly dumb. The accountants, as people who make their living off of a tax code so complex that only trained professionals can understand it, are inherently biased against a tax code so simple that
garbage men
can understand it.
And so I don’t, in this case, trust the people who I would usually look to for analysis. Instead I’ve done my own analysis, and I’m liking the prospect of a tax code that even I am able to analyze. Pretty cool.
Like most progressive democrats, I’ve learned to be pretty averse to sales taxes. But in this case, we have a proposition that actually bolsters everything that progressives fight for in a tax code. I don’t believe that any progressive worthy of the cause can oppose HR25, and those who give any thought to it should wholeheartedly support it.
[Update 6/11/06] This article is now also available in printable PDF format .
[Update 7/13/06] I received an email from a reader with several more good points. Read it here .
59 comments:
I am a liberal democrat & I wholeheartedly agree with you! I also know many other democrats that agree once I explained the national sales tax to them. For some reason though the democratic party is against it & they actually send out material against it. They just happen to forget to mention the tax rebate, the 100% take home pay & many other great aspects of this proposition when they talk about it hitting the poor hard. The fact is the poor will benefit from this. 100% take home pay and essentially no taxes on necessities. Look at your check & see how much comes out from federal taxes, SS & Medicare. Now multiply that by 52!
There are even more benefits than you talked about. First the underground economy will be paying taxes. IE: drug dealers, theives & other tax evaders.
It would solve the whole internet tax problem. (I am an internet business, yet I see the desperate need for this – I would be willing to lower my prices to compete, if it means I don’t have to sweat April 15th & almost have to take out a second mortgage to pay my taxes!)
Businesses are fleeing US & it’s burdened tax laws to more tax friendly countries. When that happens we all lose. Mostly in jobs. Remove the business tax & those businesses will return to the US & bring good jobs with them! By not having to pay the tax on exports the US can really compete in the international market. By imports having to pay this tax you will find businesses springing up here to replace the cheap overseas products! The business taxes are priced into everything that is sold. Remove that and prices will go down to compete.
Take away the 7.5% that businesses have to pay in SS & Medicare and you get higher wages.
No taxes on any used items.
I among many others don’t believe income taxes are constitutional. Don’t get me wrong I believe we should pay our fair share, but it needs to be in a way that is without a doubt legal. There are some movements going on now that could in effect collapse government as we know it, all resulting from income taxes and the constitution and the convoluted tax code. Goverment has no choice but to do something to fix this problem before the system collapses.
The national sales tax is a VISIBLE tax. You keep every penny you earn and you know before you decide to buy something exactly what it is going to cost you. No more money disappearing from your check each week then oweing more than you thought on April 15th.
There are many benefits to it & I think everyone should learn about it before they make the decision to condemn it, just because the democratic party is. I am actually thinking of starting a site called Democrats for the Fair Tax!!! Anyone interested in helping out with something of this nature?
Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong!!!
The problem is that the mega-super-rich spend so little of their income that moving from income tax to sales tax would be a HUGE tax break for them. The sales tax proposal would be great for the ultra-rich and ultra-poor, but it would shift virtually the entire tax burden to the middle class.
Hardly “fair” if you ask me.
You can go to the web site and see sample tax rates under the FairTax
http://www.fairtax.org/tax_returns.html. . Everyone wins when you eliminate over 250 BILLION DOLLARS in compliance costs from the economy EACH YEAR. (How many Iraq’s is that?!!)
And look at the actual income tax rates of the rich. There are so many loopholes they use to lower it. Most middle class I know what the IRS out of their lives and want to be free to get another raise at work without being in a higher tax bracket.
I am the Middle Class and have been the poor class and thus understand their needs. I support the Fair Tax. The middle class now are being squeezed the tightest. Right now the rich have so many loopholes and concessoins that they are able to avoid the majority of taxes. The poor get even more then was taken. Where does the rest come from? Us middle class. My tax rate now is close to 45% when you add in my double SS & Medicare for self emplyment. Pay my tax rate then tell me 23% is outrageous!
Here is another one: Illegal aliens will be paying taxes!
There are so many reasons to support the fair tax, even for us liberal democrats. Before bashing it people should really study it, then look at the crooked mess we have now!
How can you say the rich don’t spend. Theirs is a life of spend, spend and spend. They are even encouraged to spend to expense out items as deductions on their taxes. Consumptuion tax would be the greatest idea for them as they will not curb their spend for anyone!
I too am part of the middle class and have studied the FairTax. As a matter of fact I have done a research paper on it comparing it to the current tax code. I found the FairTax to be, by leaps and bounds, the more advantageous not only for the poor and the middle class, but for the entire economy. One thing most do not realize is the money saved in government spending. Think about how much money the US Printing Service spends (of taxpayers money) printing tax forms, tax instruction books, tax code manuals and income tax checks. And let’s not forget the postage and envelopes required to mail them to every American. Millions of $$$!!
And I cannot leave out illegal incomes (drug dealers, thieves, etc) that never report their incomes. Do they pay taxes under the current system? NO! Well when that pimp buys his brand new Cadillac, and that drug dealer buys that brand new Mercedes, they will be paying taxes. Finally, a tax system that ensures all Americans pay their share. Now that’s what I see as “fair”!
Did you know that already 140 countries already have a flat tax system. Did you know that most countries already have a national health care system. Did you know that 2% of the people that own stocks own 50% of the stocks and the rest of us that own stocks the other 50%. Certain indidivuals don’t want this because they are greedy and want to filter most of the available income to themselves.
Why are all the best ideas buried so deeply??!!! This would be a monumental change, but it just might work! At least we would all see our taxes for what they really are. Does this plan also use the sales tax to cover SS?
I’m sure there are a few hidden problems, as with anything new and untried, but a grass-roots movement on this would be super!!!
The super-rich pay very little in taxes,they put their wealth into foundations and by giving away money qualify as tax exempt.So Bill Gates,who might earn 2 billion per year just in interest(5%),puts his billions into a trust,gives away money to his favorite charity to qualify,and the interest payments or other income just pile up tax free.His trust buys his houses,his cars,his apartments in NYC and London,and pays him walking around money(is a million a year enough to buy cigarettes and beer?),on which money he must pay income taxes.Most of our wealthy government representatives have such trusts.Many also pass assets to heirs on stepped-up valuation,thus getting around the estate tax as well.The Kennedy family is a good example.More in “The Rich and the Super Rich”,by Ferdinand Lundberg.
Connor, that is a brilliant analysis of the FairTax. Thank you for writing it. I have been searching for an article I can use as a handout when addressing a primarily left-leaning crowd. I would like to use yours if I may.
David Nelson-VanDette
(
email )
In answer to Tammy’s question: The FairTax would cover all income taxes including the SS & Medicare & would fund the Social Security.
If any Democrats that read this are interested in helping blog on a Democrats for FairTax site I am looking for volunteers. Don’t need money, just some people interested in posting content and blogging. Thanks!
Mary Lee
There is a well supported grassroots movement for the FairTax. Go to
http://www.fairtax.org to find more information on this legislation. Become a supporter, sign the online petition, become an organizer in your community. – Roanoke Area FairTax Community Coordinator
The fair tax looks good, however there are some risks. As it puts increased costs onto corporations, corporations will try to find some way to externalize the cost. If you haven’t noticed, they don’t mind screwing workers. They could do this by increasing the outsourcing to lower the costs of labor. Another question is what this woould do to the tax break incentives that local governments routinely offer busineeses to come to or stay in the area.
dont tax labor, physical capital, made property, or exchange, tax exlusive access to natural resources/found property (especially land)
Mike,
Taxing exclusive access to natural resources seems like something to consider (and is, in the form of property taxes, something we already do). I would be interested to know why you think property taxes are better than taxes on exchange.
In addition to discouraging U.S. exports, I see two major (potential) problems with relying largely on land (or other found property) for tax revenue:
(a) land values are volatile, and sometimes difficult to measure properly. This opens the door for a significant amount of corruption in the assessment process. It also places a disproportionate amount of the tax burden on people living in large cities, where land values tend to be higher, compared to people living in suburbs or smaller towns. Coincidentally, these urban areas tend to have some of our nations poorest people.
(b) land values are highly dependent on interest rates, which could tempt the treasury to irresponsibly boost revenues by keeping interest rates artificially low, which discourages individual savings and can lead to runaway inflation.
Actually Chris, it decreases costs to corporations. It reduces directly the cost of labor by the 7.5% SS, Medicaid ECT tax. And it eliminates the $250,000,000.00 a year in income tax compliance costs. And it would encourage many businesses to build here, they would hire more workers, wages would go up, people would spend more, people would buy American because it would become cheaper, and there would be more jobs, and that would cause wages to rise, which would raise spending on American products, and round and round it goes.
You are correct Boyd, sorry Chris you are not. One of the best selling point in my mind is the fact that the FairTax eliminates the tax burden on corporations and business & therefore encourages those corporations flocking to the tax haven countries to bring their businesses back to the USA, where they will bring jobs for Americans. not only that, you remove the tax compliance and SS costs & double corporate taxation, then prices will go down & we can better compete in the foreign market, meaning buy USA not China!!! We will be competing with cheap labor countries again.
The point of this is to get rid of the tax on labor and instead tax consumption. I am a tiny business and it costs me about 20% of my earnings just to comply with the tax code. IE: Bookeeping and account. Then you add my 15% SS, then my 35% tax rate. I am being squeezed dry and really giving serious thought to making a move to a tax haven myself & if I go there go the few jobs I provide in my town. Now take that to the corporate level & instead of a few jobs lost you get hunreds or thousands of jobs lost. It is happening every day. Check out the Exporting America List. It is so huge now you could not even begin to try to boycott them like the old days (a few years ago!) At this rate there will be no manufacturing jobs. The only jobs left in America will be brick and mortar businesses. Getting ready for it, because if something isn’t done soon things are going to get dire in the job market. The FairTax takes care of that issue along with many, many more!
1. RE: Corporations or Businesses paying “their fair share”. Come on folks…businesses don’t pay taxes. Never have, never will. Taxes are merely one component of cost – along with raw materials, labor, power, etc. All costs are added up, multiplied by a markup factor, and that is the price you pay. Business never pays taxes…YOU and I pay business taxes (and related tax compliance costs) every time we buy something. That is one of the appeals of the Fair Tax, those tax and compliance costs GO AWAY, and prices drop. How much? Well, on average, 22 cents of every dollar for every product or service you purchase is tax related cost. 22%!
2. You are right that the rich spend a smaller % of their incomes than do poorer folks. But they still spend a lot, and therefore under the Fair Tax, are still paying far higher taxes, both in $ and in marginal rates. (The Fair Tax is Progressive!) But the most important thing is what the rich do with the $ they don’t spend. (Hint, they do not stick it in their mattresses!) They Invest it! It is either used to start or expand their own businesses, or loaned out to others to do the same. And that means economic growth and…JOBS. More jobs and better paying jobs. Because w/o that 22% burden, our manufacturers can and will sell more “made in America” products, both at home and abroad. And foreign corporations will race to open facilities here in the good old USA. The Fair Tax is the greatest job creation proposal in the history of mankind.
And those are only two advantages. There are more.
Maybe later.
The fair tax would super charge the American economy. The tax base is so thoroughly widened that the burden is lessened for everyone as way more people spend than earn taxable income. The current tax code punishes behaviors that should be rewarded. It’s designed to punish hard work and earning on an increasing scale. The fair tax, on the other hand, does not tax earnings, savings, or investments (yippie); but, rather, punishes spending. The USA has a marginal propensity to consume of 90%. Somewhere around 75% would be ideal.
John,
I don’t buy #1. You are correct that businesses pass their costs (including tax costs) to consumers. However, businesses do pay taxes – in most markets, a 22% price increase effects a massive drop in demand. That means that, in order to keep customers, businesses have to reduce margins to remain at a price level which the market will bear – effectively taking a portion of the taxes out of the margins (read: profits) of the business.
As for #2, higher than what? It’s kind of spurious to divide the entire U.S. population into “the rich” and “the poor”. There are huge variances in the cost of living from region to region. You can be rich in Cheyenne with a lot less money than it takes to be rich in Manhattan. The better definition of “the rich” than a specific income level is people with more disposable spending money (whether they earn it, inherit it, win the lottery, etc.); these are by definition the people who would shoulder most of the tax burden under the FairTax.
Conner…
The twenty-two percent figure is real, and is there every day, I didn’t make it up. Source: Jorgenson, Dale: (Then) Chairman, Department of Economics, Harvard Univ.
In addition: Income tax compliance costs as a percentage of revenue have been estimated as 18 percent by the Tax Foundation’s Art Hall, 24 percent by author James Payne, and 22 percent by the Tax Foundation.
This is real, it can’t be dismissed with a—“well, I don’t believe it”. With net margins across all businesses being in the area of 5% of sales, no business could survive “swallowing” a 22% cost.
As for your second point, we agree. You just expressed it slightly differently.
John,
The “I don’t buy #1” was aimed at this quote, not your numbers:
“Come on folks…businesses don’t pay taxes. Never have, never will. Taxes are merely one component of cost – along with raw materials, labor, power, etc. All costs are added up, multiplied by a markup factor, and that is the price you pay.”
The part I don’t buy is not that taxes and tax compliance cost money, but that businesses can pass 100% of tax and compliance costs onto customers. I went on to explain exactly why I think this is wrong.
Don’t get me wrong—I support the FairTax, just not for the same reasons you do.
Thanks for this terrific article. It is always heartwarming when folk from the Democratic side of the aisle do such insightful analysis.
Great concept, but there are still some important questions we may want to consider.
Would it increase the market for person-to-person selling of used items? What about taxing the peer-to-peer used items on something like ebay?
Would the rich just buy stuff offshore and sneak it back in on their boats? (especially small high value items like pharma and electronic products) What about duty free items? What about gifts?
Would there be a trend toward decrease or flatness in pay, especially for the lower income classes? (“you don’t need it, you got a XX% “raise” when we got rid of those other taxes”)
Would there be a large market for repairing used products? Would there be more value in “junk” yards where we could salvage used repair parts?
Would it result in lower sales of new merchandise in the USA? Would they have to increase the tax% if new product sales decline and the revenue is less than projected? Would this result in an increasing spiral of sales tax% increase followed by revenue decrease? Would we demand more from the lower income members of society?
Would we re-introduce an income tax on the “rich” to cover a tax revenue short-fall?
We actually may become much less wasteful and disposable with this kind of taxation, a very good thing for conservationists and society as a whole.
However, I fear unforseen future consequences, such as the re-introduction of other tax revenue streams, if the sales tax does not result in the revenue our government demands. Then we get multiple taxes again; yuck.
If you think business will drop the price of anything by 22% just because their expenses are less, you’re dreaming. They’ll keep the prices exactly the same and then add a 30% sales tax on top of that.
Also, you can kiss your raises goodbye this way. I guarantee you employers will view the fact that you now take home 100% of your pay as incentinve NOT to raise your pay for other reasons.
So, to sum up – 30% price increases + no raises= 30% pay cut. Thanks but no thanks.
Not to mention that any tax that has me paying the same percentage rate of tax as Bill Gates has absolutely no business claiming to be “fair”.
Re: Rob’s diatribe…
Sigh…Where to begin?
1. Rob has a real lack of understanding about business basics under free enterprize. What happens, for instance, when one of the three gas stations on the corner lowers its price a couple of cents? How do the others respond? What happens every time a car manufacturer announces a rebate or other major promotion? How do the other manufacturers respond? How much did you pay for your last computer? According to Rob’s logic, it should have been three or four thousand dollars, minimum! Why do you suppose prices are significantly less than that? The answer my government-schooled friend is COMPETITION. Businesses fight far more over market share than eking one more % point in profit. Prices will come down simply because that is the way the system works. Always has. (Conclusion also supported by extensive academic research.)
2. There may be no or minimal raises the first year, as businesses adjust and you enjoy your full paycheck. (Anywhere from 7% to 30% higher depending on your tax bracket.) But as the economic expansion effects of the wringing of the 22% embedded costs out of the system, plus far more dollars being available for investment, plus our manufacturers being more competitive in world markets, there will be a job boom. And what is the second effect of job growth? (After a drop in unemployment.) Higher wages! It’s simple supply and demand. No economics courses, huh?
3. As to fairness, I detect a bit of wealth envy on Rob’s part. First of all Rob, how many jobs have you created? How much tecnical innovation do you claim credit for? Mr. Gates is wealthy because he has done both. Big Time. And he is using his wealth to continue contributing jobs to the economy and innovation to our way of communicating and doing business; not to mention the BILLIONS he is giving away in an attempt to solve some of the earth’s most pressing problems. Without the accumulation of wealth, there are no jobs, there is no progress. But to your inane point anyway—Mr. Gates will not only pay more taxes than you in real terms, simply because he can and will spend more of his money (Though we all benefit from the money he doesn’t spend, but rather invests and/or donates). BUT, because of the prebate feature of the Fair Tax that UNTAXES THE POOR, the Fair Tax is progressive, and Mr. Gates will actually pay a higher RATE than will you or I.
Before you go off on a rant about something, it always helps to familiarize yourself with the topic. You obviously did not, and therefore all three of your objections are flat out incorrect. Why not sneak over to
http://www.fairtax.org and do a little research. Try to understand what the Fair Tax does and how it works. Then come back and tell me it won’t be a lot better than what we have today.
1. First of all, your gas station analogy is severely flawed- There are 10 different gas stations in a mile of my house, all of which vary in price from 2 to 10 cents; so obviouosly one station does not lower its prices because the others do. Also, you neglect the possiblity of collusion, a very real risk with lack of goverment oversight.
2. I have been to the fair tax site, and I find the assumptions needed to make this work are both naieve and unrealistic. I do not believe for one nanosecond that business will drop prices- there’s no incentive to! Your claim that they will is based on the naieve and flawed assumption that one business will just, for no reason, drop their prices forcing others to follow suit. There will not be an explosion in job growth; as your plan provides no incentines to stem the blood tide of outsourcing; if anything it would increase under “fair” tax, as the level of goverment interference in corproration diminishes. There is no incentive to increase job or cut prices and supporters of the fair tax based their support on the assumption that those things will happen- assumptions I have SEVERE problems with.
No, the current system with a little tweaking so that coroprations and the rich start paying their fair share of taxes would be much better than your alleged “fair tax”.
But of course you’ll dismiss my desire for actual tax fairness as me being “envious” which is nonsense. Bill Gates was a poor example, however as he has produced some jobs and technlology tho he got most of his wealth by scrweing over smaller poorer companies with unfair business practices.
So lets switch it to Paris Hilton- she has done nothing, produced nothing, been responsible for nothing- and any tax that has me paying the same tax rate as her as no business calling itself “fair”.
Rob,
Paris Hilton would pay a higher tax rate under the Fair Tax—higher than, say, you would, but also higher than she pays now.
Paris Hilton is, primarily, an heiress. Her money does not come from income, it comes from her trust fund—which means that under the current system, she (and people like her) pay an incredibly low tax rate. People who spend with money that they don’t earn would pay much more under a sales tax system than they do under an income tax system, because they spend a lot more than they make.
What makes the Fair Tax specifically attractive to progressives is the consumption allowance for necessities, effectively exempting your basic spending for things like putting food on the table. You spend a much larger percentage of your money on necessities than Paris Hilton, and so a much larger percentage of your spending is covered by the allowance.
For example, accounting for refunds:—A person at the poverty level who spends all of their money for basic needs would pay absolutely nothing in taxes (unlike the current system, where the poor are killed with payroll taxes).—A middle class person who spends half of their money for basic needs would only pay taxes on half of his spending (an effective 23/2=11.5% tax rate). —A multimillionaire heiress who spends only 1% of her money on basic needs would pay taxes on 99% of her spending (an effective 22.99% tax rate)
Rob, you’ve said that ‘there’s no incentive for businesses to reduce prices’, but actually there is- businesses compete with each other for customers. That’s why they have sales- they know there’s more profit to be made by selling something cheaper than the competition than there is in not selling anything because customers are buying from the competition. It’s also why when Dodge offers it’s employee rate, GM offers zero-percentage financing. It’s because selling something, even at a lower price, is more profitable than sitting on inventory. This is what causes prices to move up or down- it’s the free market at work.
Regarding the bit about businesses not paying taxes: sure, they pay taxes, but they pass the expense along. Businesses pass on their costs to one of three places: to customers, in the form of higher prices, to labor, in the form of lower wages or fewer employees, or to capital, in the form of reduced investment or accepting lower returns. With the enactment of the FairTax, businesses will experience a lifting of their costs- first, in tax remittance, but more than that, in their tax compliance expenses. My wife owns a small business, and pays more to comply with taxes than she pays in taxes. This is typical of small businesses. In 2003, according to the Tax Foundation, small business paid, on average, $724 in compliance expenses for every $100 it paid in tax. This is what our current tax system costs to implement.
That’s a lot of cost being passed along to customers, to labor, or to capital right now. According to the actuaries who calculate the cost of living index, somewhere between 22 and 29% of the price of everything you buy is tax or tax compliance, rolled in to the price. It’s essentially a hidden sales tax that businesses collect and remit in the form of their income tax. Change the mode of taxation, we stop requiring businesses to do this- and the tax goes out front as a line item on the sales receipt, instead of rolled up into the price. ...and businesses will become that much more efficient. Is it possible that businesses will keep a higher margin? They’ll try, in the same way they try today- but they’ll still have to compete for your dollar with other businesses, just like they do today. That, or they’ll pass the savings on to labor or capital in the form of higher wages or more employees or more capital investment. Most likely, a little bit of all three will happen, and this is an unqualified Good Thing. If prices don’t go down by the whole increment of the new savings, then either investment or employment will go up (assuming the savings are not put into a mattress).
The key to this is in recognizing that our current tax system requires businesses to do a LOT of expensive work in order to comply with the tax code. This makes everything more expensive than it needs to be. In essence, we’re already paying that 23% sales tax you’re worried about paying. AND we’re paying our income taxes, too.
I am retired and live on Social Security and a small pension. Although the FairTax might actually raise my taxes, I’m in favor of it for the simple reason that it’s FAIR. The income tax is not. This would be wonderful for future generations and for our economy.
This article did a great job at putting the FairTax is common sense logic. Those of you that still don’t get it should read “The FairTax Book”.
That’s what I get for not previewing- my answers didn’t show. Do over:
Q: Would it increase the market for person-to-person selling of used items?
A: Almost certainly. Used goods would enjoy a price advantage over new ones.
Q: What about taxing the peer-to-peer used items on something like ebay?>
A: There is no plan to tax used goods.
Q: Would the rich just buy stuff offshore and sneak it back in on their boats? (especially small high value items like pharma and electronic products) What about duty free items? What about gifts?
A: Imported goods would be subject to the consumption tax when brought in to the country. If someone smuggles stuff into the country to avoid paying taxes, they risk the consequences.
Q: Would there be a trend toward decrease or flatness in pay, especially for the lower income classes? (“you don’t need it, you got a XX% “raise” when we got rid of those other taxes”)
A: Not unless there is no competition for labor among businesses. The same forces that set pay rates today will continue to set pay rates under any future tax system.
Q: Would there be a large market for repairing used products? Would there be more value in “junk” yards where we could salvage used repair parts?
A: Maybe. Services, under the proposed legislation, are taxable, but the used goods are not. There may be market niches for repair that would make sense- if the repair cost less than the replacement value of a new item.
Q: Would it result in lower sales of new merchandise in the USA?
A: Not for any logical reason. If you’re in an average tax bracket today, you need to earn $130 in order to buy a $100 item. Under the proposed tax, you need to earn ~$130 in order to buy a $100 item. In other words, the cost of goods to labor (the amount of work you’ll need to do in order to get the stuff you want) will not change- in essence, you’re already paying today what you’d pay under the FairTax, because you’re shopping with after-tax dollars. In fact, most economists predict that a consumption tax system will increase consumption: with the repeal of income taxation, businesses will realize a substantial savings, which will be passed along to a)customers, in the form of lower prices, b) capital, in the form of higher investment and growth, and c) labor, in the form of higher wages and more jobs.
Q. Would they have to increase the tax% if new product sales decline and the revenue is less than projected? Would this result in an increasing spiral of sales tax% increase followed by revenue decrease?
A. No. Today, when tax revenue falls short projections, the tax code does not require congress to raise rates. The proposed legislation, like the current legislation, does not concern itself with balancing the budget- it simply raises revenue. Interestingly, for as long as income and consumption have been monitored, consumption has been the more reliable index- its highs are not as high, but it’s lows are not as low- this makes it a better tax basis than income.
Q: Would we demand more from the lower income members of society?
A: There is no plan to do so in the proposed legislation. Note that the FairTax is the only tax proposal before congress that un-taxes the poor 100%. Of course, congress could try demanding more from them, but they’d have to deal with the wrath of their constituents.
Q: Would we re-introduce an income tax on the “rich” to cover a tax revenue short-fall?
A: There is no plan to do so in the proposed legislation, just as there is no mechanism to do so under the current tax system.
Interestingly, the FairTax folks have introduced a measure to repeal the 16th Amendment (which empowered congress to levy taxes on income) in order to prevent multiple tax systems.
Of all these observations about the fairtax, and there are many fine ones, I find it surprising that there is not one comment about the restoration of our constitutional rights with the Fairtax.
The Fairtax will also bring the elimination of the American Gestapo, i.e., the IRS, and thereafter our tax obligation will be fulfilled anonymously at the cash register instead of by the intrusive 1040 form.
Bob’s right…but the Fair Tax’s positive effect on our rights goes even further than that. With both Congress and the boys from Gucci Gulph severely limited in their ability to manipulate this tax to create winners and losers, and the IRS confined to the dust bin of history, as Neal Boortz says so eloquently “You would have the largest transfer of power from government to the people since the American Revolution.”
I wrote this article, and frankly, I think I disagree with most of the commenters here on almost everything. I do not think that income taxes are unconstitutional (given the 16th amendment) or an unfair intrusion on our rights. I do not think government interference is necessarily, or even usually a bad thing, and my support of the fair tax has nothing to do with the size or power of the federal government.
Somehow, the people commenting here are assuming that the whole part at the beginning where I said I was a liberal democrat was only so much talk. It’s actually true. I’m a “big government liberal,” and my support of the sales tax has absolutely nothing to do with an opposition to government or a hatred of taxes.
Connor
What can we do to reduce jealously? Maybe instead of working so hard to punish the hard working people, we should find a way to make the lazy people cofortable with what they have. That wasy the lazy people won’t be so jealous of the hard working people. I’m reminded of that old story of the two students. One worked hard adn got straight As, and the other partied and got Ds. The D student became jealous of the A student. Using the liberal logic, some of the high grades of the A student should be given to the D student, so the grade averages are closer together. The A student would be a B student and the D student would rise up to a C student. Now is that fair? Be grateful for what you’ve got, and be grateful that others have more than you do, so you won’t need to support them.
Paul,
What exactly does jealousy have to do with this article?
Connor
I’m a retail manager in Milwaukee. I can honestly say that the FairTax Plan would certainly improve the economy-for my employees, my customers and my business. I’m a liberal who supports the FairTax, as are a lot of working people. I’m shocked that so many Democrats in Washington are so opposed to it. Obviously, their opposition is a party thing and not based on what voters in their districts/states think. It kind of shows just how out of touch liberals are with the country. In a few more days we’ll go to the polls and vote. If you want the FairTax to become a reality, find out if your candidate supports it, then decided if he/she is really worth voting for.
A few simply questions for all those who oppose the FairTax. (1) Which is better, our current system where approximately 40% of the population actually pays taxes, or everyone who sets foot on United States soil paying taxes? (2) What’s the best way to make S.S solvent.? (a) Raise taxes on current workers (b) cut benefits for retirees© Inact the FairTax. I don’t see difficult choices here.
Appreciated your article. I am a fan of the FairTax as well.
With the Fairtax it comes down to this in a nut shell. Who you trust deciding how much taxes you pay an on what you pay taxes on. The trusting government (that only looks out for it self) or your self . I don’t know about you. But I wouldn’t trust not one of them in Washington D.C with my money. Look how they have spend the money over the years. Need I say more? So please take the time to look at the Fairtax Book or do like I did. I read the bill HR25, HRJ-16 and S25. It took a while but I did it. An do this with an open mind for some type of change. In closing please remember the IRS can change the rules at any time that they feel like doing it. Can You?
What percentage of the total IRS take in the year 2005 went to cover the cost of operating the IRS..I believe the “take” was close to 45 billion in 2005.
While the Republicans were in power, they gave the FairTax lip-service. The Democrats have started to talk-up the FairTax, but if not pressured, they too will only give it lip-service. As noted above several times, the FairTax is a viable option as viewed by many Americans on both sides and whether liveral or conservative. Now don’t that just beat all:-) We, as a nation, seem to want it. We, as voters, don’t seem to have a chance. Maybe this converstion should evolve into how “we” as Americans can once again have a say in government. Voting for a “party” sure does not seem to be the way.
Gary
I am a conservitive in a state with a 10% sales tax (Tennessee). We have fought like crazy to keep an income tax out of our state. Democrats, Republicans and Independants all pressured the State government to kill the proposal, and it worked. It became a campaign issue in the last two elections. The Democratic Governor and Republican State Senate and Congress found diffrent ways to deal with taxation.
The FairTax is worth fighting for and this site makes me feel as though Liberals and Conservitives can come together and break the shackles of a horrible tax code designed to keep K Street lobbiests rich.
Workers, managers and owners, unite! We have nothing to lose but the IRS.
You say sales tax only wouldn’t shift the entire burden from businesses. Your justification for that statement is that businesses will have to “change” to account for the extra tax… This may or may not be true, but “change” does not equal “tax”. It doesn’t make any sense at all
Lawrence,
Here’s why “change” equals “tax” in that paragraph:
Suppose a company is selling product X. A customer has $10 to spend on product X. If the sales tax on product X is 0%, the customer spends $10, the company grosses $10 and the government gets nothing in taxes. If the sales tax goes 23% and the customer still only has $10 to spend, the company has to lower its price to $8.13 (or give up the sale, since anything higher would price the customer out of the market). In this case, the customer spends $10 ($8.13+tax), the company grosses $8.13, and the government gets $1.87 in taxes. This is exactly the same outcome as if the government had taxed imposed an 18.7% tax on the company.
(This example is based on a market where consumer spending is completely inelastic, because that makes the math a lot simpler. I think it still illustrates why a price drop in response to a sales tax has the same outcome as a tax on the vendor’s income.)
Connor,
Product X currently has embedded taxes from the manufacturing, from raw material to finished product. X-Corp (the company that sells Product X) passes the manufacturing costs, compliance to union contract costs, tax lawyers fees to avoid taxes, costs to comply with Federal regulations, shipping, expense accounts for the top brass, advertising costs featuring a multi-millionare sports figure AND varrious embeded taxes to the costomer. Embedded taxes will be eliminated, thus Product X now costs 23% less to manufacture. The price will drop because their main compeditor, Widget, USA will try to undersell them. The price will drop.
The FairTax is NOT a tax cut. It is a way to tax the consumption of the finished product rather than every step of it’s manufacture.
The cool thing is if you buy one Product X it costs $10 and you pay $1.87, John and Theresa Heines Kerry buy 1 Product XL (the bigger $1,000 version) they pay $187.00 in taxes. Thus taxing the rich MORE.
As an added bonus, if you don’t want any Product X or Widget USA, you keep the $10 and pay no taxes what so ever.
Win – Win
p.s. both X-Corp and Widget USA will keep their money in American banks rather than the Caymen Islands because it will be better for their corperations. Also forign companies will move their headquarters to the US to take advantage of our sweet deal. More jobs with bigger pay. Yum Yum!!
Conner, thank you so much for putting forth the many reasons for progressives supporting the Fair Tax. I have run into rather reflexive responses to even mentioning this bill among liberals, and sometimes I think it has more to do with semantics (the “progressive tax” definition) than anything else. Ironically, conservatives who also support this bill often do so for reasons no progressive voter would even consider; but all the better for forming coalitions. We may not all share the same reasons, but we seem to all want the same positive results.
One aspect of the Fair Tax that I don’t hear mentioned is how it would help the debt situation of so many Americans who are trapped in high-interest credit situations, a wide-spread problem unlikely to resolve on its own, or even the evolving crisis of homeowners stuck with high-interest mortgage rates, or those stuck with monstrous medical bills. Since most people in these situations are unable to spend money on anything other than survival items because much of their income must be reserved for monthly payments on the debt and increasing fees and interest rates, having their 20 to 30% in hand each month to keep that debt total down instead of it being held by the IRS could save them thousands of dollars per year, making climbing out of that debt a little more possible. When that person or family finally gets free of that debt and is able to purchase goods again instead of paying interest—hey, I am no economist, but that can’t be bad for the economy or the country in general, to say nothing of the human spirit.
Connor
Nice article. Had a few “pro” points I had not considered.
Unfortunately, I’m still not buying.
1) You point to the fair tax somehow encouraging firms not to outsource because they save on taxes, compliance costs etc. Actually, the reason they outsource is because Asian workers will work 12 hours/day 7 days/week for $120 per month. Cutting their taxes will have only a marginal offset effect on that.
2) I don’t quite get your argument about firms slashing their margins. If they did so it would be very bad – collapsing business investment, job creation etc. At least, so it seems to me
3) The big Kahuna – Argue aboout tax loopholes all you want, the slighty more than 40% of federal revenues from the personal income tax are almost totally paid by the top 5-10% of income earners. Ie, the rich.
Fica payroll tax,on the other hand, is just less than 40% of revenues and it is as radically regressive as the income tax is progressive. Taken together, these taxes providing 80% of revenues, are a wash in terms of progressive – regressive.
Fait Tax, on the other hand, exempts the poor clear enough, but, as another commentator noted, the richer people become, the less of their income they apportion to retail consumption. They pay less of the fair tax and they are also freed from taxes on their businesses and their investment gains. This is a heavy tax on the middle class. So, fair tax drains the middle class and will crash business profits/investment/job creation. Am I missing something here? The only way this could be made less crushing to middle classes would be to boost the rebate so that no one making less than the median annual wage ($35K approx) would pay the tax. But then, the 23% rate would not raise nearly enough money. You would have to retain the corporate tax, cap gains tax etc in order to raise the money needed. All in all, not worth the effort, IMHO.
Better to focus on something like public financing of political campaigns. If politicians were not such whores we would not have so many bad laws and a screwed up tax system to begin with.
My suggestion: We all write to out federal legislators and the Prez. Tell them we will not vote for any federal incumbent until public campaign financing is established and private contributions elimated or strongly restricted to only a few hundred dollars per year – say, the amount a minimun wage worker can earn in a 40 hr week. maybe that would help them focus on keeping a minimum wage at decent levles too. To make it stick, we have to be willing to vote against any incumbent and FOR whomever is the frontrunner opponent. We will have to be willing to do promise AND DO IT even if that leading challenger is distasteful to our political values. It only takes a few hundred such handwritten pledges to every legislator to make them get serious about this. Be sure to add in that public financing shoiuld be made available to independents and 3rd parties equally. We have to clean up the politicians and get some healthy competition to get the 2 party duopoly to be more responsive to the citizenry. Seriously, this is more fundamental and imiportant that messing with taxes which are badly run BECAUSE of the corruption from campaign money! OK! Enough of my soapbox.
Thank,
Charlie
Fair taxes is an oxymoron. Taxes are levied on those who have enough income. If you have no income the government supports you almost completely. Those who have some money (up to 50K of taxable income) pay a small amount but percentage wise is a good chunk. The rest pay more and more. The mega rich consume just like the rest of us and they can control easily how much taxable income they need for their needs. The rest of their capital ,which by the way has been taxed already, is invested in things like bonds which are not taxed.
What I have not seen or heard is the need for fiscal responsibility and balancing the federal budget.
We all practice personal fiscal responsibility and balance our budget every month. If we don’t then we face financial disaster. Our government does not and yet they continue to push us deeper and deeper in debt.
I believe that a taxation revolution is in order. Our system has not worked is not working and will not work.
Gabe
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G. Michael,
Regardless of my opinion of the Fair Tax Act I think the sales tax in Tennessee is unfair and regressive because it does tax food and other basic necessities. The lack of taxation on these items is exactly what makes the fair tax appealing to me.
What about real estate taxes? Would only new houses be taxed? If so it seems new construction would drop to almost nill because the lifespan of a house is so long and used houses hold their value pretty well. Also, what of the adjustment period when we switch to the new system? For the first year at least, companies will have paid all the current taxes and costs associated with our current system, but will have to pass on an additional 23% tax to their consumers.
I’m not convinced that the fair tax would be fair. It would be a tax—and a rather large one. Three smaller points concern me:
The transition from the current system to fair tax would be jarring to the economy, similar to a recession. Savers (those with little to no debt and money in investments) get double taxed—their savings are after income tax and under the new system they are pre-tax.
Businesses, I assume, get to tax a credit for taxes paid for their raw materials against taxes collected on sales. If not, their costs go up and guess who gets to pay…you and I. If they do get the credit, business still have to issue a 1099 equivalent to their customers, showing tax paid. Or the business has to keep all their receipts showing tax paid to get the credit. This is just tax compliance cost in a different form—it doesn’t go away.
Large item purchases concern me. The fair tax is collected for used as well as new goods. (How many yard sales will collect AND REMIT the fair tax? not many.) So when I purchase a car or house and need to finance, will be bank be willing to lend me enough money to pay the purchase price (less downpayment) AND the tax? How are banks feeling about lending 100% of a assets price, not to mention 123% of the price, lately? (Yes, a downpayment lowers the percentage some.) Other medium priced-items that are frequently financed (furniture, appliances, jewelry, electronics) would also require more cash to close the deal. Those advertisements that say “no money down; taxes and fees due at signing” wouldn’t sound so attractive.
The “family consumption rebate” is just another vehicle for buying votes by a sitting Congress. Not that they have a problem doing that now, but it would be easy to bump up the rebate before the election. I’d prefer for food and medicine to be exempt and forget the rebates.
The fair tax would also apply to services. Will my health insurance cover the whole cost of going to the doctor/hospital, or do I have to pay the tax myself? If health insurance does cover it, the insurance companies have to raise premiums (since they don’t print money in the the basement—they get it from us). Oh, and did the fair tax folks mention the premium would be subject to a 23% tax, too? Maybe they would let us have an exemption from tax for automobile liability insurance, since that’s mandated by law in many states.
I would rather see the near-impossible happen: cut spending; have the Fed govt do less and do with less of the people’s money. Yeah, good luck on that, too.
Hi “Chuck,”
I’ve inserted responses within your questions or comments by labeling the statements with “C” or “R”.
(C) I’m not convinced that the fair tax would be fair. It would be a tax—and a rather large one.
(R) The rate is actually lower than the sum of all the federal income-based rates.
(C) Three smaller points concern me:
The transition from the current system to fair tax would be jarring to the economy, similar to a recession.
(R) The transition might be bumpy, but not, in my opinion, a reason not to proceed. Imagine if we’d done this 50 years ago how well things would be today.
(C) Savers (those with little to no debt and money in investments) get double taxed—their savings are after income tax and under the new system they are pre-tax.
(R) Everyone with taxed money will be taxed on spending it except when buying used goods, donating to charities, or paying educational expenses. For the duration of the transition, money can be shielded by investing in an ordinary IRA. It’s unlikely that all of us can be made whole for our post-tax investments.
(C) Businesses, I assume, get to take(?) a credit for taxes paid for their raw materials against taxes collected on sales.
(R) Correct.
(C) If not, their costs go up and guess who gets to pay…you and I. If they do get the credit, business still have to issue a 1099 equivalent to their customers, showing tax paid. Or the business has to keep all their receipts showing tax paid to get the credit. This is just tax compliance cost in a different form—it doesn’t go away.
(R) Since it’s transitional, there’s a cut-off date.
(C) Large item purchases concern me. The fair tax is collected for used
(R) (NO!)
(C) as well as new goods. (How many yard sales will collect AND REMIT the fair tax? not many.)
(R) None.
(C) So when I purchase a car or house and need to finance, will be bank be willing to lend me enough money to pay the purchase price (less downpayment) AND the tax?
(R) First, I assume you are referring to new items; used are not taxed. I guess the banks will do whatever they do today, for example, in the case of a new car with taxes and fees added on. At least with the FairTax you will be paying the “shelf” price, with the taxes already included.
(C) How are banks feeling about lending 100% of a assets price, not to mention 123% of the price, lately?
(R) It won’t be 123% because of the removal of the embedded taxes. In my examples I allow prices to rise to 110% worst case and can still show higher purchasing power.
(C) (Yes, a downpayment lowers the percentage some.)
(R) The down-payment would consist of 23% tax since it is a partial payment on a taxable item.
(C) Other medium priced-items that are frequently financed (furniture, appliances, jewelry, electronics) would also require more cash to close the deal.
(R) As I said above, prices are expected to be at or near today’s prices.
(C) Those advertisements that say “no money down; taxes and fees due at signing” wouldn’t sound so attractive.
(R) Merchants currently don’t collect the “embedded” taxes so I doubt they’ll collect the FairTax up front. I wasn’t able to find any direct reference in H.R. 25 for handling what you described but I would guess that taxes would be part of the periodic payments.
(C) The “family consumption rebate” is just another vehicle for buying votes by a sitting Congress.
(R) I think you’re being too cynical here. The poverty spending allowance is, I believe, based on real cost data and is updated once per year.
(C) Not that they have a problem doing that now, but it would be easy to bump up the rebate before the election.
(R) If the allowance were to be raised it would apply to everyone, not a particular voting group. And, sooner or later the tax rate would need to be bumped up to pay for it at which time everyone would get hurt.
(C) I’d prefer for food and medicine to be exempt and forget the rebates.
(R) The problem with this is that the exemptions would apply to everyone in such a way that the wealthy would get more of a benefit than the poor. That’s just backwards from what we want to happen. By using the poverty table and family size, the tax relief can be better targeted. It’s a clever system.
(C) The fair tax would also apply to services. Will my health insurance cover the whole cost of going to the doctor/hospital, or do I have to pay the tax myself?
(R) You will pay tax on the insurance premium and on any uncovered costs.
(C) If health insurance does cover it, the insurance companies have to raise premiums (since they don’t print money in the the basement—they get it from us).
(R) See next answer.
(C) Oh, and did the fair tax folks mention the premium would be subject to a 23% tax, too?
(R) Insurance is a service and as such is taxable. Paid claims are a business-to-business expense between the service supplier and the insurer and are not taxed. So, you pay a tax on the entire premium but get a refund whenever a claim is paid, to the tune of 23% of the claim.
(C) Maybe they would let us have an exemption from tax for automobile liability insurance, since that’s mandated by law in many states.
I would rather see the near-impossible happen: cut spending; have the Fed govt do less and do with less of the people’s money.
(R) The first step is to make the tax code more transparent so we can understand it. The next is to realize how much is being demanded and spent and go to work on lowering both of them.
(C) Yeah, good luck on that, too.
Conner
I understand where you are comming from when you say, “I don’t buy #1. You are correct that businesses pass their costs (including tax costs) to consumers. However, businesses do pay taxes – in most markets, a 22% price increase effects a massive drop in demand. That means that, in order to keep customers, businesses have to reduce margins to remain at a price level which the market will bear – effectively taking a portion of the taxes out of the margins (read: profits) of the business.”
But the problem is this. Lets say that you and I own a business of making cell phones or something else. Doesn’t really matter what. So we start out by making these widgets and this is what we in accounting call costs. But we are truly lacking something to have a profitable business, thats right, we forgot we need to sell them. So lets say that we now have our COM-ie cost of manufacturing of materials, our fixed and variable costs as well as sales. This should give us a holistic P&L (profit and loss statement). Once we take in all of our sales or more commonly phrased as gross revenue, we reduce that with our COM, after that we get our gross profit, from there we reduce the rest of our fixed and varieble costs (employees, cost of sales, marketing, rent etc) after all of that has been deducted, we get to our net profit which under the current system is taxed.
Now lets think about this, what money did we use to begin our mathmatical equation? The answer is sales. Well I suppose that would mean that all of our money came from people buying our widgets. So we obviously didn’t print the money but we used someone elses money and that money after all other expenses are taken out is taxed. So in effect, do corporations pay taxes? The answer is no, it is all of the consumer spending. That is why wealth is created in two ways in US and taxed in both. Real wages or labor and investments. Their are currently over 200 different taxes in the US imposed upon people and only 3 for corporations and it is paid for by consumers. Corporations do not and will not pay taxes. When you purchase something you are actually buying the material it was made with, the employees labor, the fixed costs, and even the cost that the company spent to sell it to you. If consumers were not, then the companies you are buying from will no longer exists because they did not go into business to pay taxes, rather to turn a profit.
There is something wrong with all of you. class envey little brats. Grow up. the rich/small business/doctors etc… provide jobs. Why do you care how much more money if confiscated from them? Are you going to see a dime of it? NO! Most of our taxes are paid by the productive hard-working people.
I think everyone should pay something if your an American, yes, even the poor.
Fair tax is one option.
National Luxury Tax, in effect. Interesting idea, however, what is to prevent the rich from purchasing most of their luxury items overseas? Can we regulate the side market of “bought overseas, carried into the US?” How would you handle the tax for say… a diamond bracelet bought in Europe?
What is the “sale” of stock considered? What if the stock is in a foreign or international company? Is it taxed at the US sales rate? If it is, wouldn’t the upper 2% of Americans (holding vast amounts of stock) emigrate out of the US?
And speaking of emigration in particular… we already see some wealthy Americans choosing to relocate overseas to locations with lower overall tax rates. If we implement the luxury tax, and in effect end the loop holes and increase their taxes, why would they stay in the US?